To Charles Lyell [22 November 1866 – 14 December 1871]
Summary
CD asks if he can call tomorrow (Friday) at 9: 30, and offers to come on Saturday if that would suit CL better.
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | Charles Lyell, 1st baronet |
Date: | [22 Nov 1866 – 14 Dec 1871] |
Classmark: | Natural History Museum, Library and Archives (L DC AL 1/2) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-13825G |
From J. D. Hooker 4 February 1866
Summary
Asks CD whether he knows of a medicine to check vomiting – for a friend dying from starvation as a result.
Duke of Somerset is looking for two naturalists for survey ship to Korea and Strait of Magellan.
Author: | Joseph Dalton Hooker |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 4 Feb 1866 |
Classmark: | DAR 102: 57–8 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-4996 |
From J. E. Gray 13 April 1866
Author: | John Edward Gray |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 13 Apr 1866 |
Classmark: | DAR 165: 211 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5056 |
From Bartholomew James Sulivan 27 June 1866
Summary
Reports on his health.
Discusses a surveying expedition under Richard Charles Mayne on which his son will be Second Lieutenant; hopes to arrange for them to excavate some bones in the Falklands.
Author: | Bartholomew James Sulivan |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 27 June 1866 |
Classmark: | DAR 177: 286 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5133 |
From Alphonse de Candolle 3 June 1866
Summary
In London for the Botanical Congress; regrets missing CD.
Lyell and CD have mistaken H. Lecoq’s position on glaciers. He has not denied the possibility of a glacial period, only that decreased temperature is needed for their extension.
Recommends F. J. Ruprecht on vegetable detritus in the black earth chernozem of Russia.
Author: | Alphonse de Candolle |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 3 June 1866 |
Classmark: | DAR 161: 12 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5111 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Bulletin de l’Académie Impériale des Sciences de St. -Pétersbourg 16 (1871): Supplement. …
To William Turner 24 [December 1866]
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | William Turner |
Date: | 24 [Dec 1866] |
Classmark: | DAR 148: 152 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5323 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Variation : The variation of animals and plants …
To Albert Gaudry 17 September [1866]
Summary
Thanks AG for Considérations générales [sur les animaux fossiles] de Pikermi [1866]. The observations on the various intermediate fossil forms seem most valuable.
AG does not fully understand what CD means by "the struggle for existence, or concurrence vitale".
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | Albert-Jean (Albert) Gaudry |
Date: | 17 Sept [1866] |
Classmark: | Museo Civico di Storia Naturale, Milan (Library: Fondo Gaudry b. 7, fasc. 28, doc. 1) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5213 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Gaudry, Albert. 1862–7. Animaux fossiles et …
To James Shaw [23 April 1866]
Summary
Thanks for sending facts on birds admiring themselves; mentions use in new edition [4th] of Origin.
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | James Shaw |
Date: | [23 Apr 1866] |
Classmark: | American Philosophical Society (Mss.B.D25.317) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5006 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … By Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Origin : On the origin of species by …
From James Shaw 14 February 1866
Author: | James Shaw |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 14 Feb 1866 |
Classmark: | DAR 177: 150 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5005 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. DNB : Dictionary of national biography. …
From Frederic William Farrar 1 February [1866]
Author: | Frederic William Farrar |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 1 Feb [1866] |
Classmark: | DAR 164: 36 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-4993 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Farrar, Frederic William. 1857. The people of …
To William Turner 14 December [1866]
Summary
Thinks of adding chapter on man to Variation. Asks about muscles connected to os coccyx in man and existence of other rudimentary organs in man.
Sends copy of Origin.
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | William Turner |
Date: | 14 Dec [1866] |
Classmark: | The University of Edinburgh Centre for Research Collections (DC. 2. 96/5 folio 1) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5306 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … By Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Origin : On the origin of species by …
To ? 10 May [1866?]
Summary
The apparent difference in arm lengths of compositors is due to a drooping shoulder. File-makers stand in a peculiar position and call one of their legs the hind leg.
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | Unidentified |
Date: | 10 May [1866?] |
Classmark: | American Philosophical Society (Mss.B.D25.) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5083 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … By Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Origin : On the origin of species by …
To Alfred Russel Wallace 22 January 1866
Summary
Welcomes ARW’s paper on pigeons ["On the pigeons of the Malay Archipelago", Ibis 1 (1865): 365–400].
Influence of monkeys on distribution of pigeons and parrots.
Asks ARW to explain a passage in his paper on Malayan Papilionidae [Trans. Linn. Soc. Lond. 25 (1866): 1–71] on how dimorphic forms are produced. CD knows of varieties "that will not blend or intermix", but which produce offspring quite like either parent.
ARW’s remarks on geographical distribution in Celebes "will give a cold shudder to the immutable naturalists".
Presses ARW to work on his travel journal.
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | Alfred Russel Wallace |
Date: | 22 Jan 1866 |
Classmark: | The British Library (Add 46434, f. 61) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-4982 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Marginalia : Charles Darwin’s marginalia. …
To James Shaw 11 February [1866]
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | James Shaw |
Date: | 11 Feb [1866] |
Classmark: | R. Wallace ed. 1899, pp. lvi–lvii; |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5004 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Marginalia : Charles Darwin’s marginalia. …
To ? 2 August [1866]
Summary
Has not seen K. E. von Baer’s paper ["Über Papuas und Alfuren", Mem. Acad. Imp. Sci. St.-Pétersbourg (Sci. Nat.) 8 (1859): 269–346], but has read extract.
Knew of case of hairy and toothless family through John Crawfurd, Journal of an embassy from the Governor-General of India [2d ed. (1834)].
Working on causes of variability.
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | Unidentified |
Date: | 2 Aug [1866] |
Classmark: | American Philosophical Society (Mss.B.D25.318) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5170 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Marginalia : Charles Darwin’s marginalia. …
From William Turner [after 28 April 1866?]
Author: | William Turner |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | [after 28 Apr 1866?] |
Classmark: | DAR 178: 197 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-13850 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Variation : The variation of animals and plants …
From John Gould 10 May 1866
Summary
Gives CD genus and species names of the singular humming-bird; distressed by specific name made necessary by revised laws of nomenclature.
Author: | John Gould |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | 10 May 1866 |
Classmark: | DAR 84.1: 20–1 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5086 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Marginalia : Charles Darwin’s marginalia. …
To James Shaw 24 November [1866]
Summary
Has seen the Athenæum and admires his article on beauty ["Feeling of beauty among animals", Athenæum (24 Nov. 1866): 681].
Author: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Addressee: | James Shaw |
Date: | 24 Nov [1866] |
Classmark: | Sotheby’s, New York (dealers) (1986) |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5284A |
Matches: 1 hit
- … and selection in relation to sex. By Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. …
From J. D. Hooker [17 May 1866]
Summary
W. H. Harvey is dead. His loss to science.
Will get a copy of Crawfurd’s paper. It was such trash he tore his up.
His letter to Asa Gray was about his [JDH’s] proof that America will have an aristocracy from interbreeding of wealth, intellect, and beauty; and the lower classes, not having time for politics, will leave them to the aforementioned.
Author: | Joseph Dalton Hooker |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | [17 May 1866] |
Classmark: | DAR 102: 75–6 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5093 |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. DNB : Dictionary of national biography. …
From James Shaw [6–10 February 1866]
Summary
Memorandum of a meeting of the Natural History & Antiquarian Society held in Dumfries on Tuesday 6 February 1866.
Author: | James Shaw |
Addressee: | Charles Robert Darwin |
Date: | [6–10 Feb 1866] |
Classmark: | DAR 84.1: 14–17 |
Letter no: | DCP-LETT-5003F |
Matches: 1 hit
- … Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871. Gladstone, Hugh S. 1913. The history of …
letter | (25) |
Darwin, C. R. | (12) |
Hooker, J. D. | (3) |
Shaw, James | (2) |
Candolle, Alphonse de | (1) |
Farrar, F. W. | (1) |
Darwin, C. R. | (13) |
Shaw, James | (3) |
Müller, Fritz | (2) |
Turner, William | (2) |
Unidentified | (2) |
Darwin, C. R. | |
Shaw, James | (5) |
Hooker, J. D. | (3) |
Müller, Fritz | (3) |
Turner, William | (3) |
Unidentified | (2) |
Candolle, Alphonse de | (1) |
Farrar, F. W. | (1) |
Gaudry, Albert | (1) |
Gould, John | (1) |
Gray, J. E. | (1) |
Lyell, Charles | (1) |
Rolle, Friedrich | (1) |
Sulivan, B. J. | (1) |
Wallace, A. R. | (1) |
Darwin in letters, 1871: An emptying nest
Summary
The year 1871 was an extremely busy and productive one for Darwin, with the publication in February of his long-awaited book on human evolution, Descent of man. The other main preoccupation of the year was the preparation of his manuscript on expression.…
Matches: 30 hits
- … The year 1871 was an extremely busy and productive one for Darwin, seeing the …
- … promotes the sale’ ( letter from J. D. Hooker, 26 March 1871 ). The profits for Darwin were …
- … first two printings, Darwin wrote to Murray on 20 March 1871 , ‘It is quite a grand trade to be a …
- … in memory of the book’ ( letter to H. E. Darwin, 20 March 1871 ). Reaction …
- … to read it ( letter from James Crichton-Browne, 19 February 1871 ). The African explorer and …
- … pleasant or not’ (letter from W. W. Reade, 21 February 1871). The geologist William Boyd Dawkins …
- … to buy them’ ( letter from W. B. Dawkins, 23 February 1871 ). Thomas Henry Huxley marvelled that …
- … tide-marks!’ ( letter from T. H. Huxley, 20 February 1871 ). Asa Gray remarked, somewhat …
- … and pointed ears” (letter from Asa Gray, 14 April 1871) Like his previous book, …
- … arms and legs ( letter from C. L. Bernays, 25 February 1871 ). Samples of hair arrived from …
- … his head ( letter from W. B. Tegetmeier, [before 25 April 1871] )). Hinrich Nitsche, ‘the lucky …
- … orang-utan foetus ( letter from Hinrich Nitsche, 18 April 1871 ). Darwin thought he might use the …
- … poor return’ ( letter to Hinrich Nitsche, 25 April [1871] ). Animal anecdotes appeared in …
- … space each morning ( letter from Arthur Nicols, 7 March 1871 ; letter from B. J. Sulivan, 11 …
- … of beauty ( letter from E. J. Pfeiffer, [before 26 April 1871] ). Roland Trimen, a long-time …
- … in the past ( letter from Roland Trimen, 17 and 18 April 1871 ). Candid disagreement …
- … were raised to a high pitch, as Innes wrote on 26 May 1871 about the darker races arising …
- … as far as this goes’ ( letter to J. B. Innes, 29 May [1871] ). On religion and morality …
- … Creator made it’ ( letter from George Morrish, 18 March 1871 ). Darwin received an anonymous …
- … Descent ( letter from a child of God, [after 24 February 1871] ). Yet some continued to …
- … religious feeling’ ( letter from F. E. Abbot, 20 August 1871 ). The Anglican clergyman and …
- … brethren’ ( letter from George Henslow, 5 December 1871 ). Ernst Haeckel boasted of his month …
- … monkey !’ ( letter from Ernst Haeckel, 21 December 1871 ). Descent was extensively …
- … independent of all times and all circumstances’ (8 April 1871, p. 5). Darwin condemned the author of …
- … & classics’ ( letter to John Murray, 13 April [1871] ). But a similar point was made by …
- … the killing of some members of a hive a duty (Cobbe 1871, pp. 174, 188–9). Darwin was particularly …
- … by culture, not biology ( letter from John Morley, 30 March 1871 ). Reaction at home …
- … its master. ( Letter from Hensleigh Wedgwood, [3–9 March 1871] .) Some of Darwin’s …
- … to me’ ( letter to Hensleigh Wedgwood, 9 March 1871 ). A widening rift By far the …
- … 1871a), which appeared just prior to Descent in early 1871. ‘I daresay it will tell heavily …
Darwin’s queries on expression
Summary
When Darwin resumed systematic research on emotions around 1866, he began to collect observations more widely and composed a list of queries on human expression. A number of handwritten copies were sent out in 1867 (see, for example, letter to Fritz Muller…
Matches: 14 hits
- … Blair, R.H. 11 July 1871 Worcester College for the …
- … Brooke, C.A.J. 30 April 1871 Sarawak, Borneo …
- … Chaumont, F.S.B.F. de 11 March 1871 Woolston, …
- … Crichton-Browne, James 3 April 1871 West Riding …
- … Donders, F.C. 28 March 1871 Utrecht, Netherlands …
- … Foster, Michael 4 June [1871] Trinity College, …
- … Gray, Asa 14 April 1871 Cambridge, Massachusetts, …
- … Gray, Asa 10 & 14 March [1871] Cambridge, …
- … Mivart, G.J. 26 Jan 1871 North Bank, London, England …
- … Reade, Winwood W. 1 Feb 1871 11 St Mary Abbot's …
- … Rejlander, O.G. [1871] Victoria Street, London, …
- … Smith, Andrew 1 Feb. 1871 11 Saint Mary Abbot's …
- … Smith, Andrew 17 April 1871 16 Alexander Square, …
- … Swinhoe, Robert 14 March 1871 33 Oakley Square, …
Frank Chance
Summary
The Darwin archive not only contains letters, manuscript material, photographs, books and articles but also all sorts of small, dry specimens, mostly enclosed with letters. Many of these enclosures have become separated from the letters or lost altogether,…
Matches: 6 hits
- … first is undated but we know it was written before 25 April 1871 because Darwin alluded to a case …
- … report by the pigeon-fancier W. B. Tegetmeier, 25 April [1871] . In his letter Chance is …
- … (Letter from Frank Chance, [before 25 April 1871] ) Responding to this meticulous self …
- … were very rare. When we were editing volume 19 (1871), Chance’s enclosure of beard and …
- … : In your work on the ""Descent of Man"" (ed. 1871) ii. 298, 299, in …
- … followed up on a similar case that CD had observed on 13 May 1871. William’s letter of 5 June 1871 …
4.17 'Figaro', unidentifiable 1871
Summary
< Back to Introduction Yet another portrayal of Darwin as a tree-dwelling ape was published in The Figaro in October 1871, and titled ‘A Darwinian hypothesis’. The image survives in a torn page in the Darwin archive, but it has so far proved…
Darwin’s favourite photographer: From O. G. Rejlander, 30 April 1871
Summary
In the 1860s Darwin began collecting photographs of emotional expression. They seemed to capture fleeting movements of the face, and allowed him to observe with more detachment. But the technology was still new. Even under the best conditions, exposure…
Matches: 1 hits
- … In the 1860s Darwin began collecting photographs of emotional expression. They seemed to capture …
Animals, ethics, and the progress of science
Summary
Darwin’s view on the kinship between humans and animals had important ethical implications. In Descent, he argued that some animals exhibited moral behaviour and had evolved mental powers analogous to conscience. He gave examples of cooperation, even…
Matches: 3 hits
Henrietta Emma Darwin
Summary
Henrietta “Etty” Darwin (1843–1927) was the eldest of Charles Darwin’s daughters to reach adulthood. She married Richard Buckley Litchfield in 1871. She was a valued editor to her father as well as companion and correspondent to both of her parents.…
Cross and self fertilisation
Summary
The effects of cross and self fertilisation in the vegetable kingdom, published on 10 November 1876, was the result of a decade-long project to provide evidence for Darwin’s belief that ‘‘Nature thus tells us, in the most emphatic manner, that she abhors…
Matches: 4 hits
- … of self-fertilisation’ ( To J. D. Hooker, 23 July [1871] ). Darwin also informed Müller of this …
- … in his hothouse ( To Fritz Müller, 2 August [1871] ). By late 1871, Darwin was already …
- … generations’ ( To Federico Delpino, 22 November 1871 ). Delpino replied that he looked forward to …
- … and horticulture ( From Federico Delpino, 5 December 1871 ). When Darwin began writing in February …
Darwin and the Church
Summary
The story of Charles Darwin’s involvement with the church is one that is told far too rarely. It shows another side of the man who is more often remembered for his personal struggles with faith, or for his role in large-scale controversies over the…
Matches: 5 hits
- … [1850] and n. 6; and letter to J. B. Innes, 29 May [1871] ). Their true friendship does …
- … request favourably—’ (letter from J. B. Innes, 26 May 1871 ). Indeed Innes had such a high …
- … school and organ funds (letter to J. B. Innes, 13 January 1871 ). Down’s next clergyman …
- … very dull sermons’ (letter to J. B. Innes, 18 January [1871] ). Mr Powell was happy to take up …
- … qualifications’ (letter from J. B. Innes, 5 June 1871 ). Particularly in the early days of …
Moral Nature
Summary
In Descent of Man, Darwin argued that human morality had evolved from the social instincts of animals, especially the bonds of sympathy and love. Darwin gathered observations over many decades on animal behavior: the heroic sacrifices of social insects,…
Matches: 8 hits
- … Letter 7048 : Darwin, W. E., to Darwin, C. R., [April? 1871] In Descent of man (1: 71 …
- … Letter 7645 : Morley, John to Darwin, 30 March 1871 The politician and man of letters, …
- … of Descent of Man in the Pall Mall Gazette (Morley 1871). Darwin admired the review, and …
- … Letter 7685 : Darwin to Morley, John, 14 April [1871] "When I speak of intellectual …
- … Letter 7691 , Morley, John, to Darwin, 17 April 1871 "I don't think Mr. Mill& …
- … 7470 : Wedgwood, Hensleigh to Darwin, [before 3 March 1871] Darwin exchanged long letters …
- … Letter 7537 : Darwin, C. R. to Wenslow, Hensleigh, 3 March [1871] Using the example of …
- … 3. [ available at Darwinonline ] Cobbe, F. P. 1871. 'Darwinism in morals'. …
Strange things sent to Darwin in the post
Summary
Some of the stranger things Darwin received in the post can tell us a lot about how Darwin worked at home. In 1863, Darwin was very excited when the ornithologist Alfred Newton sent him a diseased, red-legged partridge foot with an enormous ball of clay…
Darwin and vivisection
Summary
Darwin played an important role in the controversy over vivisection that broke out in late 1874. Public debate was sparked when the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals brought an unsuccessful prosecution against a French physiologist who…
Matches: 3 hits
Experimenting with emotions
Summary
Darwin’s interest in emotions can be traced as far back as the Beagle voyage. He was fascinated by the sounds and gestures of the peoples of Tierra del Fuego. On his return, he started recording observations in a set of notebooks, later labelled '…
Henrietta Darwin's diary
Summary
Darwin's daughter Henrietta kept a diary for a few momentous weeks in 1871. This was the year in which Descent of Man, the most controversial of her father's books after Origin itself, appeared, a book which she had helped him write. The small…
Matches: 8 hits
- … wrote the following journal entries in March and July 1871 in a small lockable, leather-bound …
- … by Henrietta herself. Darwin’s letters in 1870 and 1871 ( Correspondence , vols 18 and 19) …
- … missions due to take place between 26 February and 5 March 1871 in four towns within the deanery of …
- … from Charles and Emma Darwin to F. J. Wedgwood, [March 1871?], and letter from F. J. Wedgwood to H. …
- … University Library. Henrietta Darwin | March 1871 1871 March— Sea Grove …
- … away what they have no equivalent for. July 4th 1871. How hard it is to wait—the …
- … I think I am a very happy woman. Sunday July 9 th . 1871 I want to think why I shd …
- … mission leaders in the Hampshire Advertiser , 21 January 1871, p. 7. 4 Probably John …
William Winwood Reade
Summary
On 19 May 1868, an African explorer and unsuccessful novelist, William Winwoode Reade (1838–1875) offered to help Darwin, and started a correspondence and, arguably, a collaboration, that would last until Reade's death. After a first 1861 tour of…
Matches: 1 hits
- … of it" – Winwood Reade to Charles Darwin, 31 January 1871 ) and sought Darwin’s advice on …
Women as a scientific audience
Summary
Target audience? | Female readership | Reading Variation Darwin's letters, in particular those exchanged with his editors and publisher, reveal a lot about his intended audience. Regardless of whether or not women were deliberately targeted as a…
Matches: 5 hits
- … Letter 7624 - Bathoe, M . B. to Darwin, [25 March 1871] Mary Bathoe responds …
- … Letter 7644 - Barnard, A. to Darwin, [30 March 1871] J. S. Henslow’s daughter, …
- … 7651 - Wedgwood, F. J. to Darwin, H. E., [1 April 1871] Frances Wedgwood offers …
- … 7411 - Pfeiffer, E. J. to Darwin, [before 26 April 1871] The poet Emily Pfeiffer …
- … Letter 8055 - Hennell, S. S. to Darwin, [7 November 1871] Sarah Hennell writes to Darwin …
Francis Galton
Summary
Galton was a naturalist, statistician, and evolutionary theorist. He was a second cousin of Darwin’s, having descended from his grandfather, Erasmus. Born in Birmingham in 1822, Galton studied medicine at King’s College, London, and also read mathematics…
Diagrams and drawings in letters
Summary
Over 850 illustrations from the printed volumes of The Correspondence of Charles Darwin have been added to the online transcripts of the letters. The contents include maps, diagrams, drawings, sketches and photographs, covering geological, botanical,…
Matches: 1 hits
- … of sexual differences in viviparous fish, [before 1 June 1871] Fritz Müller's …
Capturing Darwin’s voice: audio of selected letters
Summary
On a sunny Wednesday in June 2011 in a makeshift recording studio somewhere in Cambridge, we were very pleased to welcome Terry Molloy back to the Darwin Correspondence Project for a special recording session. Terry, known for his portrayal of Davros in Dr…
Matches: 1 hits
- … politely worded rebuke to St G. J. Mivart ( 21 April [1871] ) for the inadequacies, as Darwin saw …
Have you read the one about....
Summary
... the atheistical cats, or the old fogies in Cambridge? We've suggested a few - some funny, some serious - but all letters you can read here.
Matches: 1 hits
- … ... the atheistical cats, or the old fogies in Cambridge? We've suggested a few - some funny, some …