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Darwin Correspondence Project

From George Cupples   13 July 1868

The Cottage, | Guard Bridge, | Fifeshire. N.B.

July 13/68.

My Dear Sir,

I am really ashamed to trouble you again with notes which now strike me as trivial. If they serve to give the slightest illustration of facts in Zoology as viewed by you, I should feel, however, always much pleased about the matter.

I have set to work with my Monograph, and try to make it interesting and entertaining—though it cannot aspire to be more.1

When I have a really good puppy, such as would do me credit, I do hope you will be induced to reconsider that point—as when taken at the right age, they are the least troublesome of all dogs, and the most manageable.2

It has all along been in my mind to ask a great favour from you—since I don’t know if there is any other way of obtaining the object—namely a photograph of yourself, supposing cards to be at hand. If you would care to have one of your obscure reader and officious correspondent, I would send it—having in fact to get one done soon for similar purposes.

Pray excuse this, and believe me, | Dear Sir, | ever most truly yours | George Cupples

Chas. Darwin, Esqre. | &c. &c.

[Enclosure]

July 13/68

I have received from Mr McNeill of Colonsay3 the following as to the period at which puppies show the disproportion.

Dated June 5th.

“I agree with you that the difference of size shows itself when they are a fortnight old. That is the age at which I was in use to make my selection x x x   I have found that males do not attain their full growth till they are over two years of age, though females attain it sooner.4 x x

(signed) Archd. McNeill.

I have now weighed 10 puppies (in two litters) weekly, till they are 11 and 9 weeks old. Three were females, the whole litter of one large bitch—four were dogs from a smaller bitch, along with three females from the same bitch, but suckled by a nurse-bitch procured for them, and all seven were a fortnight younger than the threefirst-mentioned. I found that the four dogs were all alongheavier by 2 to 3lbs than their sisters, and when of the same age as the other bitches (remarkably large and fat ones) were invariably about 2lbs heavier—till at 9 weeks old they have made up to or passed these older bitches. In short, from previous knowledge, I should say the difference appears from the first, and goes on increasing till at 4 to 6 months old it is obvious to the eye—ultimately resulting in an excess of size and weight in the dog, which may be stated at nearly a 5th. i.e. even 6 inches in height, and in weight, say 18 to 20 lbs—as 90lbs in training make an average dog (of rather smallish size) and 70lbs would be considered good in a bitch.5

No. 2     further Notes on Scotch Deerhounds—

Size of the male and female respectively—and proportionate number of the sexes born.

1.     copy of letter from Mr Robertson, Head-forester to the late Marquis of Breadalbane, and to the present Earl.6

“Forest Lodge, | Black Mount.

12th. May | 1868

“Dear Sir,

I have received your letter, and regarding the Deerhounds I have found always that the Males are in general from 2 to 3 inches higher than the females, and I have always found them to be so during the 40 years I have been rearing deerhounds. But there is not so much difference in the crosses as there is in the pure-bred deerhound. As to the proportion between the numbers of males and females among the pups born from deerhounds, in general there are more males than females in a litter.

I am in haste yours very truly | (signed) Peter Robertson

2.     extract from letter from John Wright, Esqr., Yeldersley House, near Derby. dated May 11/68. (a noted breeder)

“As regards the proportion between male and female, I consider that as a rule there is greater disparity of size between the male and female in this breed than in any other—about 312 inches in height, of difference. That is, a bitch 27 inches high is fully as large for her sex as a dog over 30 inches.”

3.     Ditto from Ditto—dated May 28/68

“With regard to your question about the preponderance of either males or females in litters of puppies—I believe that in the canine race, as in every other race of animals of which I have had any opportunity of judging, the sexes are born as near as possible equal. But you must not take 15 or 20 litters only to judge from, but a much larger number—and also they must not be litters all born in one year, or in only 2 or 3 years, but running over a considerable length of time. Some years and some periods of some years I fancy are more productive of one sex than another—this I think applies to all other races of animals, and this is why examples must be taken from a number of years. There are also other causes which in the case of bitches sometimes cause a bitch to have more dogs or sometimes more bitches—but in the whole long run, take for instance 200 different litters from a number of different bitches, in a period of time extending over 10 years, and you will find, I think, that the males will be in the same proportion as the females— Yrs. J. Wright—”

I think the point as to difference of size may be held as established—say at least 3 inches difference in height—a very great difference.

As to births—Mr Robertson says oracularly malesI guessed off hand females—Mr Wright says neither. Desideratum—a larger basis for inductions, but even Mr Wright uses the expression “as near as possible an equality”— This “as near as possible, I suppose, involves the whole question.

I shall try to obtain more facts on this point.

In Richardson’s Manual on the Dog (the best I know of in the same space, pubd. by Orr & Co., London.) I find the following most apposite—

“Amongst all the rough greyhounds, and more especially those of Ireland and Scotland, there exists a greater disparity of size between male and female than between the sexes of any other member of the canine family. For instance, of a litter of pups—a Dog shall grow to the height of, say, 30 inches at the shoulder—and not a female of the same litter shall exceed 24 inches.” page 59.7

This my own experience verifies exactly—a difference of even 6 inches—a greater disproportion than in horses, man, or most animals. I am disposed to think, from experience, that the small bitch often produces the larger dogs.

CD annotations

End of letter: ‘Age of Dogs & Proportion of sexes & Photogr | Pop [illeg]’ pencil
Enclosure:
1.1 I have] after ‘XX [illeg]’ red crayon
1.1 I have … disproportion. 1.2] crossed blue crayon
3.1 “I agree … sooner. 3.4] crossed blue crayon
3.2 I have … sooner. 3.4] scored blue crayon
5.1 I have … bitch. 5.13] crossed blue crayon
6.1 No. 2 … point 18.1] crossed blue crayon
19.1 In Richardson’s … larger dogs. 21.3] crossed blue crayon
20.5 page 59.] cross added blue crayon
Top of enclosure: ‘Preference— Size of Deer Hounds & age at which acquired’ ink

Footnotes

Cupples refers to his work on Scottish deer-hounds (see letter from George Cupples, 1 May 1868 and n. 4).
Cupples had offered CD a deer-hound puppy in his letter of 11–13 May 1868. CD’s reply to this letter has not been found. CD did eventually accept a puppy (Bran), in 1870 (see letter from George Cupples, 14 November 1870 (Calendar no. 7369)).
CD quoted from McNeill’s last sentence in Descent 2: 262.
CD cited Cupples for information on average height and weight of Scottish deer-hounds in Descent 2: 261.
Cupples refers to Peter Robertson, John Campbell, the fifth earl of Breadalbane and Holland, and John Alexander Gavin Campbell, the sixth earl.
The quotation is in Richardson 1847 (Dogs: their origin and varieties), p. 42. CD cited page 59 of the work, under the title Manual on the dog, in Descent 2: 261 n. 24.

Bibliography

Calendar: A calendar of the correspondence of Charles Darwin, 1821–1882. With supplement. 2d edition. Edited by Frederick Burkhardt et al. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1994.

Descent: The descent of man, and selection in relation to sex. By Charles Darwin. 2 vols. London: John Murray. 1871.

Summary

Offers deerhound puppy.

Asks for photograph.

Encloses letter from George Cupples of notes, with excerpts from letters from Peter Robertson and John Wright, relating to difference in size between male and female deerhounds. Reports on weight statistics of ten [deerhound] puppies being observed.

Letter details

Letter no.
DCP-LETT-6274
From
George Cupples
To
Charles Robert Darwin
Sent from
Guard Bridge
Source of text
DAR 83: 129–32; DAR 161: 285
Physical description
ALS 2pp † encl AL 5pp †

Please cite as

Darwin Correspondence Project, “Letter no. 6274,” accessed on 28 March 2024, https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/letter/?docId=letters/DCP-LETT-6274.xml

Also published in The Correspondence of Charles Darwin, vol. 16

letter